Identifying Specimens

[JohnB]

I'm a bit confused with how to properly use the Specimen program when it comes to the identifying fields.

There are three fields: Batch Reference, Accession No, Speciment Name. Of these I tend not to use the Batch Reference - I did tinker with a while ago but for now, I'm keeping things a bit simpler.

Let me run this scenario. I've got the hardy Fuchsia 'Hawkshead' and I've propagated a bunch of cuttings that I've now planted out in different beds.

I fired up Garden Areas and Plant Profiles (GA004) and click on 'Plants in this Garden Area' to see what I have in that bed.
Click on Add/Get a Plant
Type in Fuchsia, Click on Fuchsia in the 'My Database' row, Click on List all, Click on Fuchsia 'Hawkshead' and Click on Select.
GA100S36 screen displays, Click on Specimens
The parent plant specimen is listed (I'd added it before). It has no Batch number, the Accesssion number is 822-1 (plant number 822 and my suffix of 1), it has no specimen name.
Click on Add (to add a specimen)
Clear the Accession No field of the text 'Fuchsia1' that has been entered by the program and replace it with 822-2, Get a garden area, fill in the Date obtained, cutting date, planted date and click Add.

At this point an error is displayed "This specimen NAME already exists, not added".
Since I've not used specimen names, and the help seems to indicate it's optional, I find this very confusing -- I don't want to put in a specimen name as I've already used an Accession Number that is different from all others. I end up having to put in something which are usually just random letters.

I expect that I'm using the program with a different set of assumptions from those which were used when it was written. Perhaps, George you could explain how you expected Accession & Specimen Name to be used (or point me at the right help documentation I may have forgotton about).

[ideasguy]

Thanks for raising this subject John

At design time, I had to have a guess at what to provide in relation to specimens, so here goes.

First, there is Help
Drag the green icon over the buttons related to Batch Ref and Accession Number
Release when a Bullseye appears. Help topic is displayed
Rather than clutter it here, Ive provided a web page which shows the help "under" each of those controls when you drag and release the mouse button
http://www.garden-software.co.uk/vegetables/Help_Topics/help_topics.html

Specimen name
This is where your problem lies
You cannot use the same Specimen Name twice for any particular plant
A BLANK specimen name is (to a computer) a specimen name
Thus, if as you appear to have done, you attempt to add TWO specimens with a blank name for the same plant, the program will display that dialog box (not an error!) saying:
This specimen NAME already exists, not added

Accession number
Max 12 characters (was 10 in older versions)
Accession number is used by Botanical gardens etc. Its probably a bit alien to many amateur gardeners
Using the Plant Number (see help web page on how to determine the plant number) and a suffix as you have done is perfect.

The program actually allows duplicate Accession Numbers
However, if you click the Suggest button, a unique Accession "reference" is generated, within a Garden and Garden Area

Batch Ref
Please follow the Vegetable Project, initialised when Isabell asked about working with specimens:
http://www.flowergenie.co.uk/ideas/forum/index.php/topic,1313.0.html

We will use the Batch Ref in that project, and I'd like all to see it in action.

[JohnB]

I seem to be reviving topics of the past! That's the penalty of taking a break for a while and coming back to the program.

I failed to say thank you last time George for your help on this topic. I thought it might be useful to actually document  the approach I now follow when I'm entering information for plants.

I enter the Plant Number into the Accession Number field.
I enter the Year and a number into the Specimen Name field. The number represents the number of times I acquire one or more of these plants.

For example, If I get 5 Rosemary officianalis 'Arp' in May 2011, the Specimen Name field would get 2011-1 and the quantity would say 5. If later in the year I acquire another Rosemary officianalis 'Arp', say in July, the Speciment Name field would get 2011-2 and whatever the quantity.

This may be somewhat overkill as most years I'd only every acquire one group of a type of plant, but it just helps me keep things straight.

If I take cuttings from a plant, then I'll create a batch (using the program's suggestion for a unique batch id) associated with the specimen I'm taking the cuttings from. The survivors then get split out of the batch and will get new specimen names using the approach above - just as if I'd acquired them.

By doing this, all plants of the same species/cultivar will end up with the same Accession Number, each grouping of specimens will end up with the same Specimen name. Cuttings taken from one of the specimen groups and that group itself will all carry the same Batch identification.

This does require a bit of work to keep straight, but I find that when I've done this (and I've not been as diligent as I should have been), it really helps me keep things straight.

[JohnB]

Following on from the note below, I'm not sure that I am using the Batch and Split functions properly.

Assume I have 3 specimens of Euphorbia griffithii 'Fireglow' and planted them in May 2007. The Specimen program (GA100S23) shows:

• Accession Number: 532
• Specimen Name: 2007-1
• Garden Area: South Bed

In 2010, I take some divisions of these specimens. I created a Specimen Event, but this doesn't "add" any plants to the database, it simply creates a descriptive entry. Performing a Split on the specimen entry doesn't help as I can't increase the number of specimens.

So, I created a Batch Reference for the Specimens: EuphFrg111. So that now those three specimens are identified as follows:

• Batch Reference: EuphFrg111
• Accession Number: 532
• Specimen Name: 2007-1
• Garden Area: South Bed

I then added 5 specimens with the following information:

• Batch Reference: EuphFrg111
• Accession Number: 532
• Specimen Name: 2010-1
• Garden Area: Outside Gates
• Origin: Division
• Division Date: 03-01-2010

When I use GA004 and click on the plant name, it opens up the GA100 Plant Profile program. Clicking the Specimens button shows that I have 2 sets of specimens each in it's own garden area. So far, so good.

I then click on the Specimen and on the GA100S23 panel which has a 'Batch' button. If I click that Batch button it does not show both groups of specimens that have the same Batch number.

What I would like to be able to do, is to get a report or display of ALL the specimens in a particular Batch. Is there some way I can do that?  As I said at the beginning, it may be that I'm just not using the Batch function properly. Any ideas gratefully accepted.

[ideasguy]

I had to read that a few times John. I think I know what you actually have there, so here goes to explain a few things.

You posted this:

I enter the Plant Number into the Accession Number field.
I enter the Year and a number into the Specimen Name field. The number represents the number of times I acquire one or more of these plants.

For example, If I get 5 Rosemary officianalis 'Arp' in May 2011, the Specimen Name field would get 2011-1 and the quantity would say 5. If later in the year I acquire another Rosemary officianalis 'Arp', say in July, the Specimen Name field would get 2011-2 and whatever the quantity.

Your system of assigning Specimen names is perfect

The software does actually allow you to create multiple specimens with the same Accession Number.
I would not recommend that, however.
Lets say the plant no in your database for Rosemary officianalis 'Arp' is 123
For the 5 Rosemary officianalis 'Arp' bought in May 2011, I would add a specimen record with Accession Number 123-1
They have the same source (where purchased), and if you plant all 5 in the same Garden Area, they can be lumped together under one specimen profile.
I would recommend that the second purchase be given the accession number 123-2
Wandering a little: If at any time you wish to move them around into different garden areas, then you could change the Specimen profile to a Batch, then do a split, thus creating individual specimen records for each one.
The benefit of creating a batch record is that the details (events) recorded when they were a batch is inherited by each specimen split from the batch.

If I take cuttings from a plant, then I'll create a batch (using the program's suggestion for a unique batch id) associated with the specimen I'm taking the cuttings from.

Don't do it that way John.
Record the fact that you have taken cuttings from the parent as an Event for that specimen (the parent).
Create a new specimen for the cuttings - say accession number 123-3. If they succeed and you intend to split the new plants into individual specimens later, then you could treat 123-3 as a batch.
In your notes, you could record the details of the parent.

Enough for this session!

[JohnB]

Thanks Geroge - I understand what you suggest and what I can do is also record the Batch number into the specimen event text of the parent plant.

[ideasguy]

Thats a good idea John.
Have you tried using the program - Specimens GA029?
Its a very different interface that the others, but it is best to use that program if you decide to record Events for your specimens.

When you display a list of specimens, say in a Garden Area or a Garden Area=Greenhouse, try using the Print button.
It will allow you to configure a useful report to indicate the stages of growth and tasks and events related.

In the case of growing things from seed, you can produce a report to take to the greenhouse to mark off plants which have germinated, been repotted etc. The report was designed on a sample report used by an IG user in England who grew some 180 varieties of plants from seed each year and who wished to record events.