Puzzle No 2

[ideasguy]

Conducted Garden Tour 2005
Heres a close up of a plant that was growing in a lovely garden near Belfast.

Anyone recognise it?

Puzzle plant No 2

[gardenfan]

Is it Phacelia grandiflora?

[ideasguy]

Good try, Sylvia, and you have introduced me to an interesting plant.
I found this data sheet with photos on the web:
http://www.calflora.net/bloomingplants/largefloweredphacelia.html

OK, 1st clue. Its MUCH taller than Phacelia grandiflora, and thats its big leaf in the photo.

[The Gardener]

I think it's an Echium - probably wildprettii or pininana.  They are both very similar, and VERY BIG.

[ideasguy]

Well done Chrissie. I think you are correct.

I say, I think, because the species name I was given was pinnata.
However, I cant find it in the RHS Plant Finder or the A-Z, and your E. pininana is listed.

Its listed on this web page:
http://www.thebotanicnursery.com/perennials.htm

I'll have to check my notes and give the guide a ring. He very kindly gave us his phone number. He expected a few phone calls!

Have you (or any members) ever grown this things? Where do you plant them? Incredibly, the one I took the photo of was at the front of the border!

After the visit ot that garden in Co Down, I was offered a few plants by another member of the Rose Society of N Ireland.
Now Ive got six of those babies about 10ins tall in 6in pots sitting at the back door. They have survived all winter!
Norman tells me they will make a few feet of growth this year, (but no flowers), and reach for the sky and flower the next year.
He warns me that they self seed like crazy.

[greenfinger]

At the back door: or you live in a micro-climate or your zone of hardiness is 9. We in Belgium (Zone 8 average) wouldn't probably be able to let them survive without help.

[ideasguy]

Perhaps its a warm wall?
 Norman told me to move them to the greenhouse. However, at that stage (a few weeks ago) they had already survived some very heavy frosts, so there they remain.
In any case, what happens to them next winter? They will be like 4-5 ft snowmen at the hardest part of winter with no warm wall to snuggle up to. Ive wondered about that.

[The Gardener]

You won't need to worry about them after they've flowered George - they are generally biennial.  They will flower this summer, then set seed and die  I grew some from seed several years ago.  They were very easy to germinate, and made good growth the first year.  However, in spite of being in the greenhouse and protected by fleece over winter, none of them survived. Mind you, that was in the days when we had winters!  If I grew them now, I think they would probably survive.  I first saw them in a public park somewhere down south, maybe Torquay or Bournemouth (can't remember which) several years ago and was knocked out by their sheer size - must have been about 8 feet tall, maybe taller!!  I just had to get some seed to try.  Pity it didn't work out.  I wouldn't have the room for them now, unfortunately.

[ideasguy]

Well, thats a relief 
A bit like my consolation to a colleague. He brought in the label of a bottlebush plant he had bought, and planted it in his 18in wide border along his driveway. It said it grew to about 10ft and quite wide.
I told him not to worry about not getting his car up the drive anymore... as the plant was pretty tender and would probably die.
 
Well, when those veg. aliens of mine die, I hope I'm not around when they keel over.
What height were the ones you attempted to overwinter in the greenhouse? Mine are last years seedlings and about 8- 10ins tall.

[The Gardener]

What height were the ones you attempted to overwinter in the greenhouse? Mine are last years seedlings and about 8- 10ins tall.

Mine were about the same height as yours, George, and looked really healthy (for a while!).

[ideasguy]

I'm beginning to worry now!
I brought 3 into the back porch last night as we were due a hard frost.
Ive some more photos to post to let members see the plant in its full glory.

[The Gardener]

I don't know what sort of frosts you get over there George, but when I grew my Echiums, we had a very bad winter with temperatures down to about minus 10°C.  My greenhouse is unheated, so I guess it was just too much for them.  I find most half-hardy plants will stand about minus 5°C for a short time, as long as they are dry, but any lower than that and you're in trouble!  This winter we've had minus 8°C already, and quite a few of my more tender plants have suffered as a result.

[ideasguy]

I'll keep you posted here.

I know very well from your very well documented web site that you keep a very accurate record of the weather. I meant to ask you about that before. Do you use a thermometer with a high/low needle? I had one for the greenhouse once, and it worked very well.
And how do you record rainfall?

I think the comment about "for a short time" is a very important factor.
I do remember a few winters when the temperature never rose above zero for perhaps a week or more. Certain death for some tender plants if there had been a lot of rain before the hard frost hit, and in one case there was. 1999/2000?

Anyway, I lost 2 Euchryphia (in pots) and an Azara microphylla that winter. The Azara was planted. I kept it covered at night with newspapers, to no avail. Probably wasnt home from work in time to get the protection on soon enough.
All bought at this nursery:
http://www.seafordegardens.com
and heres their page about Euchryphias (they have the National collection, I believe)
http://www.seafordegardens.com/Gardens/Eucryphias.pdf

For the record, a Eucryphia milliganii survived that winter, so if anybody is interested, I think it is a hardier variety that the others.
However, I lost it through neglect. I couldnt decide where to plant it. Its feet needed to be in shade, its top in sun, as I recall.

I'll have to check your plants list to see if you grow any of these ??

[The Gardener]

I have a maximum/minimum thermometer hanging on the outside of the greenhouse, which is on level 2 (level 1 being the highest and warmest level).  The lowest level (level 5) is usually about 3 degrees colder than the top level.  You can feel the difference in summer when you walk up the garden from the lowest level - the heat just hits you!  I don't record rainfall, except generally - "heavy rain on the 25th" kind of thing!

I take a short time to mean just overnight.  If it thaws during the day, then freezes again at night, then plants seem to be able to stand that, but if it freezes for more than 24 hours, then that's not good    From my garden I can see a large lake, and if that is frozen in the morning it tells me we've had a bad frost.  If it remains frozen all day and into the night - we're in trouble! If it remains frozen for longer then it's Goodnight Vienna for my half hardy plants!

[ideasguy]

If I walked up your garden from Level 5 to Level 2 I might begin to feel the heat as well, for a different reason.
I rested from 5-a-side football last year when my knees complained. Then my daughter (football mad) went off to Uni again (Manchester) and nobody has taken over her role of organising the weekly footie.
So, I'm a bit unfit compared to other years. Mind you, when the gardening starts, that will change!

By sheer coincidence, "unprovoked", my colleague informed me that his tender bottle brush plant is still looking good 
We had a laugh at that.

I have a feeling that N Ireland is milder than some parts of the UK. e.g. last year, you (in England) had much more snow than we did. On one snowstorm, it swept down the East coast of Scotland then England and right into Europe, missing us. Susanne in Germany had a lot of snow. We had none.

If it thaws during the day, then freezes again at night, then plants seem to be able to stand that, but if it freezes for more than 24 hours, then that's not good

Yes, I agree with that completely. It would most likely penetrate deeper by the day.
Thats a good reason for applying a pile of ashes etc over Dahlias. Takes longer for the frost to penetrate.
Do you mulch for winter?

[The Gardener]

Do you mulch for winter?

Not generally.  The trouble is, in the past I've tried mulching with a thick layer of Oak leaves (we have a large Oak tree on the boundary which drops loads of leaves in autumn) but it stays in place for about two days then the birds scatter it all over the place!  I've raked it back into place, but the same thing happens.  Ditto with a mulch of compost.....

[ideasguy]

In some parts of the garden the leaves are allowed to rest where they fall.
I glance out at the birds through French windows in the room where I work at the computer and the birds give those leaves a turning over nearly every day. The up side is, it attracts blackbirds and thrushes, the ground feeders, and its nice to see them. I enjoy their antics.

I throw my lawn cuttings in a different compost heap each year. The blackbirds turn it over for me, but onto my grass paths. I have to rake the stuff back onto the pile regulalry.

So all in all, I suspect the text book recommendations are a little impractical in this case. All those busy little worms and grubs are easy pickings. Still, as Andre would say, c'est la vie.

The blackbirds also like my yellow Pyracantha berries. They seem to go for them around Christmas time.
One of my neighbours has a fantastic Pyracantha specimen at the front of her house, laden with red berries, every year. She keeps it covered with a netting. It must be really frustrating and teasing for those hungly little birds on a cold winters morning.

[greenfinger]

Has anybody experience with Echium russicum? They seem to be a lot hardier.