Payment dates

[Pensioner]

Something I noticed which I offer for thought.

My pension is paid on 20th monthly, which is of course a non-banking day this month (April 2013), so very kindly they paid me a day early on 19th.  If I change the process date on the payment (under standing orders) to 19th, then next month’s will be on the wrong date, etc.  This happens whenever a payment of any kind falls on a non-banking day.

I tried the following work around which seems to have done the job:

1.   Change the payment date to 19th.
2.   In the Change Pending box, put next month’s correct date (and amount again)
3.   Save changes and Process

The behaviour of payments and standing orders seems to be:

1.    Salay payments and the like will be paid early, before the non-banking day on which it is due.
2.    Payments out by direct debit or standing order will be paid in the next banking day, e.g. the following Monday.

In BG the second behaviour is OK because BG will record the payment on the due date, and by Monday all is fine.  The first behaviour is more critical, as not getting the payment date right might create a 'false' overdraft situation.

I don't think any program change is needed, but George and I thought it would be useful to air this.  His work around is this:

Use the program, Process Standing Orders – BS429.
I usually select a date about 6 weeks into the future and click Refresh.
Click to select a S/O which is listed ready for processing.
Click Edit button.
You can change both the amount and the Date.

I assume that the change of date is for that particular payment, and does not change the regular repeat date.

Just goes to show that there is always more than one way of skinning a cat!

[ideasguy]

Thanks for taking up the baton and posting this Richard

RE:

I assume that the change of date is for that particular payment, and does not change the regular repeat date.

Yes, that is correct. The edited changes apply to the individual Regular Payment (or S/O) being processed.

I will make a couple of changes to the software.
1) In the current version, I will display the DAY (it already show the date) in the list of Payments ready for processing when you run the program Process Standing Orders – BS429.
That will give visibility and allow any offending items to be (date) edited before processing
2) In the next version of Bank Genie, I will provide an additional pop-up with three options in the program where you define Standing Orders (BS423).
If payment falls on Sat or Sunday:
a) Process on Friday
b) Process on Monday
c) Do not change

[Pensioner]

"Process on Monday" - Some Mondays are Bank Holidays, and there is also Good Friday at irregular intervals!

[ideasguy]

Yes, gets messy, doesn't it. Not only that, but since Bank Genie is used in other countries it does get quite problematic.

As I see it, to make it work perfectly, I'd need to:-
1) allow the user to set up a table of public holidays/days when Banks do not process payment transactions.

2) provide the options for each Standing Order
If payment falls on Sat or Sunday:
a) Process on Friday
b) Process on Monday
c) Do not change

3) provide options for each Standing Order:
If payment falls on a Bank Holiday:-
a) Process on the day before the Bank Holiday
b) Process on the day after the Bank Holiday
c) Do not change

3) could cause 2) to happen and vice versa, so the program would need to reiterate until a valid day was identified e.g. imagine the case where a Bank Holiday was on a Friday and another Bank Holiday was on a Monday and a S/O was due on any of those days.

Is it worth going to that trouble? I could do it (I've done more wonderful things than that!) but would the user want to?
Suggestions please.

[Eric Hardy]

Is it worth going to that trouble? I could do it (I've done more wonderful things than that!) but would the user want to?
Suggestions please.

It happens from time to time with me with various regular payments and pensions but my answer is NO, it is not worth all that trouble George. It is something I am aware of and it presents no difficulty.
All the best
Eric

[NightHawk]

I agree with Eric.

I don't see it as a great issue to warrant the extra work involved in restructuring the software.

[Eric Hardy]

And just as a postscript, George, I find that my annuity or pension providers will pay early rather than late if a bank holiday comes up so there is no risk of paying out money one doesn't have.

Eric H

[ideasguy]

Thanks for that Eric and Laurie.

The UK Bank Holidays are available on this site:
https://www.gov.uk/bank-holidays

You'll see a link: Add bank holidays for England and Wales to your calendar (ICS, 10KB)
That file can be saved to disk. Ive had a look at the downloaded file and I could extract the dates and work it in to Bank Genie.
But... as I say, that's fine for UK.
Users in other countries would have to obtain the dates and add them manually (see point 1 in my earlier posting)

More comments would be appreciated folk.

[barryl]

I think the initial proposals are (just) worth doing but not the bank holiday complication.

[Pensioner]

Wow!  Did I set a cat among the pigeons?  I agree with the consensus that the details is too great to be worth the effort.  The work-around I used sorts me out anyway.  Interesting though.

[AnthonyM]

I also think that it isn't worth doing anything about. My pension is paid on the 27th of the month but was paid today as the 27th is a Saturday. Bank Genie will add the income tomorrow although it's already in the bank. This doesn't cause me a problem. If it did I'd just change the transaction date once it was posted.

Anthony

[ideasguy]

Thanks for that Anthony.

Since we have people talking, I'd like to pose this question.

Has anyone any examples of "nasties"? The worst cases as I see it are:-
1) LATE INCOME:- Credit type "Standing Orders" being paid on a) the Monday if normally due on a date which falls on Sat or Sun. b) Tuesday if Monday is a Bank Holiday
2) EARLY OUTGOINGS:- Debit type "Standing Orders" being paid a) on the Friday if normally due on a date which falls on Sat or Sun or b) the Thursday if Friday is a Bank Holiday.

A combination of 1) and 2) on a weekend could give rise to an "incident"

[Davepacey]

I have another "Issue"  my Salary is paid into my bank Monthly, but not on the same date each month, rather on every penultimate Friday. any ideas on how to get around that one?

In My other Home Finance Program (MS Money 2005) I simply edit single occurrence and for each entry for the next 12 months, just select the penultimate Friday from the calendar, that does it.

Regards,

Davepacey

[ideasguy]

Hi David and welcome to the forum!

In Bank Genie you have to go with a date in the Standing Orders program and process it in advance.
In my last full day job, I always processed next months salary, usually shortly after being paid.
Once processed, I edited the transaction manually.

In the program Process Transactions - BS429, there is an edit button. You can edit the transaction before processing.
However, you have to edit each month individually.

In your other Home Finance Program, what happens at the end of the 12 months?
Do you have to remember to start again for another 12 months?
If yes, then that is not "perennial" - to adopt a gardening term.

I think I could provide a better solution.
A new "Frequency" with options:-
Pay on <first/ second/third/penultimate/ultimate> <day>.
You would pick out Pay on penultimate Friday.
That one would be easy enough to program into Bank Genie.
Is it worth the effort and extra complexity?

Incidentally, In Transaction Analyser, the <P and P> buttons will work for you for reporting. Explained here:
http://www.bankgenie.net/UserGuide/408/408PayPeriods/408payperiods.html

[Davepacey]

Hi David and welcome to the forum!

Thanks for that George :-)


In Bank Genie you have to go with a date in the Standing Orders program and process it in advance.
In my last full day job, I always processed next months salary, usually shortly after being paid.
Once processed, I edited the transaction manually.

In the program Process Transactions - BS429, there is an edit button. You can edit the transaction before processing.
However, you have to edit each month individually.

Yes I have worked out workarounds thanks for the suggestion though.

In your other Home Finance Program, what happens at the end of the 12 months?
Do you have to remember to start again for another 12 months?

I renew all the dates at the end of each financial year, also change the amounts to reflect change in salary.

I think I could provide a better solution.
A new "Frequency" with options:-
Pay on <first/ second/third/penultimate/ultimate> <day>.
You would pick out Pay on penultimate Friday.
That one would be easy enough to program into Bank Genie.
Is it worth the effort and extra complexity?

It would be worth it to me, but You are the programmer George :-)  I appreciate that time is of the essence for you and that you have to prioritise, as I said on the phone, I do some programming in MS Access and VB so I know how the workload stacks up :-)

Thanks for your excellent customer service and commitment.

EDIT:  George, having spent the best part of 1 hour playing about with standing Orders etc. tonight, I can achieve everything I need using the methods outlined by your good self, by forward processing and excluding to  999997. This also helps with the items I spoke to you about on the telephone ( comparison to MS Money's Cash Flow graph ) whereby you can see at a glance the state of your bank balance at any given date in the future, although it does get rather busy on 999997.

However, I would still like to see the date the next transaction is due column on BS423S01.  This would be of help to me if possible.

Thanks again.

Davepacey