Author Topic: GA019- Defining Divisions for a Genus  (Read 4944 times)

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Offline diegartenfrau

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GA019- Defining Divisions for a Genus
« on: November 10, 2007, 01:15:37 AM »
Hi,
with the garden season coming to a slowdown I'm finally getting to play with the program. Hopefully I will be able to share some of my playtime with the program on the forum. Especially how I'm figuring out to use it for my vegetable garden.


All year I have been keeping all my little tags and labels from the new plants I bought this year, and now I am trying at least to add the basics from each plant label into the program, so I can keep track of what I got.
So a few days ago I got to the lilies, I was inputing the info on the ×Lilium × oriental 'Stargazer' but as I put in the info on the profile I could see that something just didn't look right.

Here is what I did.
Family: Lilacea
Genus:  _x_ Lilium
          _X_ Intergeneric Hybrid   
Species _x_oriental
           _v_Hybrid species
Sub Species------------------------
Cultivar: 'Star Gazer'              proper _v_

on the website I found the info, it had a division info. So I thought I define the devision for this plant
through the GA019 program.
But this really confused me I can't figure out what to put in the different descriptions.

This is what I put in
Division description:--Trumpet L. Aurelian hybrids includes L. regale and L. aurelianse
Abbreviated description:--Trumpet lilies/Aurelian
classification group :--Divis VI
notes about this classification group:none

In the end the name which would print on the label looked like that ×Lilium × oriental 'Stargazer'
which doesn't look anything like any label I've ever seen. And although I thought I defined the Division,
the Division field still says :'None or none defined' So I know I did it all wrong, I just  don't know what.

I think I am not understanding the classification system and how to input this into the program.
Does anybody know of a good website which explains the classification and plant division of Plants? Or can help me with this?

Greetings
Isabell


 

Online ideasguy

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Re: GA019- Defining Divisions for a Genus
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2007, 10:01:13 AM »
Hi Isabell
Its great to see you here again, and thanks for posting this interesting topic.

First, the terminology.
A number of terms mean the same thing in the plant Divisions world.
Thus Divisions are the same as Classification.

To amateur gardeners, the most commonly known divisions are those of Roses (Genus Rosa)
Climber
Rambler
Hybrid Tea

For a good understanding of the subject, heres the link I recommend:
http://www.rhs.org.uk/rhsplantfinder/plantfinder.asp
The lnks on that page lead to the best info (in my opinion) that you'll find on the web.

On the above web page, click the link:
Classification of genera (128KB) - codes for subdivisions of large genera
This will show you the listing of Genera which have divisions, and of course Lillies are there (Genus Lillium)
Its a pdf file, a little slow to load - well worth the wait.

As an introduction on that web page:
Quote
Genera including a large number of species, or with many cultivars, are often subdivided into informal horticultural lassifications, or formal cultivar groups in the case of Clematis and Tulipa.
The breeding of new cultivars is sometimes limited to hybrids between closely-related species., thus for Saxifraga and Primula, the cultivars are allocated to the sections given in the infrageneric treatments cited. Please turn to p.19 for a fuller explanation.

In the next posting, I will explain how to work with plant divisions in IG.

Online ideasguy

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Re: GA019- Defining Divisions for a Genus
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2007, 01:23:07 AM »
A little bit more about Plant Divisions

1) In Ideas Genie OR Ideas Genie Pro, use the program:
Files>Genera with Divisions-GA019
Add the Genus Lilium to the list (you have to have at least on Lilium in your database before you can do that, of course)
Then double click on the Genus (Lilium) in the list
Screen GA019S02 appears.
This is where you set up your Divisions (and Sub divisions) of the Genus selected.

RE:
Quote
This is what I put in
Division description:--Trumpet L. Aurelian hybrids includes L. regale and L. aurelianse
Abbreviated description:--Trumpet lilies/Aurelian
classification group :--Divis VI
notes about this classification group:none
That all looks correct, but in the example youve given, I would change the classification group:
Change from: Divis VI
Change to:    VI

Why a description (lets refer to this as FULL description) and an abbreviated description?
In reports, the FULL description can be printed.
However, in most programs, space is rather restricted, so the name you enter in the Abbreviated description will be displayed.
In many cases, you can get the full description into the abbreviated description field.
If you can get it all in, then do so.
As you will discover, In some cases, the FULL description for some Divisions can be very long.
I had to do something ion the program to cope with that - hence the abbreviated name

As for:
Quote
notes about this classification group
Put in any supporting information you can find when surfing, or from your reference books.

Having set up the Divisions for Lilium we move on to program GA004
Start GA004
When you select a Genus which has Divisions, a shiny new button becomes visible (repeat - this button appears ONLY when you select a Genus with Divisions):
wwDivisions
Click on the wwDivisions button.
Screen GA004S03 appears
There are 2 lists.
On the left, the list will include plants which are IN Divisions.
On the right, plants in the genus which are NOT yet assigned to Divisions.

Click the Divisions button.
All the Divisions you created in GA019 appear.
The task now is to place the plants (Lilium) into their respective divisions.

Two arrow buttons sit between the lists.

Arrow pointing left MOVES plants on the right into the list on the left (into a selected Division-you select the correct Division before moving plants, of course)
Arrow pointing right REMOVES selected plants FROM their Divisions on the left, and moves them to the list on the right (OUT of a Division)

Does that help Isabell?

Next lesson will be to describe how the Divisions are very useful when you get to Global editing (e.g. in GA004)

Point of interest, not related to IG Pro. Much MORE complex - plant names.
First, there are very few intergeneric hybrids, and to the best of my knowledge, Lilium is NOT one of them.
Thus, uncheck the Intergeneric Hybrid check box.
xLililum
will become
Lilium

As for Stargazer, heres the recognised name on the RHS web site:
http://www.rhs.org.uk/Databases/HortDatabase.asp?ID=71190                                                                 

Now, Ive had to correct my entry for Star Gazer in the Master Database.
To be fussy and correct, its Star Gazer, NOT Stargazer
Also, according to the RHS, you can drop the orientale out of the plant name.

The correct plant name on your label should read as in the RHS link above.

RE:
Quote
In the end the name which would print on the label looked like that ×Lilium × oriental 'Stargazer'
That kind of name structure is how its done in the UK and most parts of the world except the US, Isabell.
In the US, you will find plants listed differently.
The trend there seems to be to quote the cultivar first, then the Genus.
Thus in the Europe, its:
Lilium 'Star Gazer'
in the US, you WILL find the same name, but in many cases you'll find it listed as:
'Star Gazer' Lilium
Particularly in Nursery listings!!

The former is the recognised Botanical plant name.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2007, 01:30:00 AM by ideasguy »

Offline diegartenfrau

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Re: GA019- Defining Divisions for a Genus
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2008, 01:27:55 AM »
Hi George,

I just tried to figure this Division thing out again, there right after you answered me I wasn't able to get back to work on it.
So I followed your instructions with GA019 and edited the classifications to VI, then I wanted to put more Lilies Divisions from the RHS website in, but for some reason the Category/Division Description Field won't let me put in more then 35 characters long descriptions in. Actually it seems to be somewhat random, sometime it is less characters, but 35 character seems to be the longest. So now I am not able to put in the whole info of the Divisions.

Otherwise I figured out how to work it. so thanks again for the step by step instructions. You have been great help for this computer challenged gal.

Isabell

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Re: GA019- Defining Divisions for a Genus
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2008, 11:11:25 PM »
You must be physic, Isabell.
Ive been working on Divisions, in relation to the Master Database.

Under the Files tab on the menu, you are using GA019 (Genera with Divisions/Categories)

You have 2 description fields for each Division
Division Description - This allows 75 characters
Abbreviated Description: This allows 30 characters

This field sizes should never EVER vary!
Try adding a dummy Division
Copy these 15 characters:
123456789012345
Paste it 5 times into Div Desc (5x15= 75)
Paste it 2 times into Abbrev Desc (2x15= 30)
Click Add
Edit it again.
All 75 characters and 30 characters should re-appear.

Now I have a question for you!
I'm setting up the Master Database in conformance with the Plant Classifications on the RHS website.
Heres the link to the pdf file which I'm using for the classification of Genera:
http://www.rhs.org.uk/RHSPlantFinder/documents/ClassificationofGenera.pdf
You'll find the Divisions I'm using for Lilium.
It says (quote:
Quote
(Classification according to The International Lily Register (ed. 3, 1982) with amendments from Supp. 10 (1992), RHS)

I am very interested to learn what classification system you are using.
When designing the IG system Ive made an "educated" guess that 75 characters is enough for the largest classification description.
What is the one (division description) you cant "fit" into the 75 character field defined above?
I can make it larger if required.

To my frustration, Ive found Rosa Divisions are a NIGHTMARE, as is Rhododendron.
Nurseries dont use them, or else they use some other classification system. I racked my brain on that subject last night, hence the reason for my surprose that you should raise the subject today.



Offline diegartenfrau

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Re: GA019- Defining Divisions for a Genus
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2008, 11:46:46 PM »
That's the problem. I was using the RHS classification info from their website and the one I was using was not 75 characters long but it just wouldn't accept that many letters, the longest string of characters I tried to put in was 35 characters, that should have fit with no problem. The first time, remember when I asked about Lilies classification I put in a much longer description in the 75 character field and there was no problem at all.

I downloaded the upgrades and will play with the program later, I keep you posted

Isabell

Offline diegartenfrau

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Re: GA019- Defining Divisions for a Genus
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2008, 12:14:34 AM »
I tried the string of 'dummy Division' and I had no problem getting them all into the field. They all fit well.

So I guess no more problem with that. Maybe the upgrades fixed that.

Isabell

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Re: GA019- Defining Divisions for a Genus
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2008, 12:32:56 AM »
Glad that is all working, Isabell.