Survey- the plight of the native bluebell (Hyacinthoides non-scripta)

[ideasguy]

You may recall we had a recent discussion on this very subject in another section of our forum.
The good news is, something is being done about it.

An article appeared in the Daily Express on Monday 20th April 2009 (a UK national newspaper).
Headline: Invader threatens our bluebells.
and draws our attention to an ongoing survey.
Read all about it on this website:
http://www.nhm.ac.uk/bluebells/

To our UK members and guests.
Please participate in this important survey. When you are out and about with your camera  please take a few photos for posting here.
Having seen the quality of the photos elsewhere on our forum, I think we can do better with our images.

To our non-UK members and guests.
Do you have bluebells in your country?
What variety are they? You'll find the descriptions of the varieties on the above website.

[Lyn and Malcolm]

A coincidence you should post about Bluebells George.

We went over the border into Hampshire yesterday pm to the lady that has the Clematis montana collection, you may remember we did the photos of Buds and Flowers for her website.
We went up to get some SLR camera pictures, a lot of buds about to pop and she wanted some landscape shots of the property and house, possibly for an article in Hampshire Life.

On the way over we saw lots of the afore mentioned Bluebells, which suprised us, they were out earlier than expected, we had planned to get some pics later, so will now go this weekend weather permitting, which is still dry and warm at the moment.

Next Wednesday we will return to the montana collection to get the pics of the flowers.

Malcolm

[ideasguy]

Thats great news all round Malcolm. I hope you can get some good snaps of the bluebells. It an "on hands and knees job" I imagine. Hope its dry 

How about a WPG website for that Clematis montana collection?

RE: The bluebells
I found I had to go to the details page for each of the 3 varieties to find some info to make them distinctive.
Heres the direct links:
a) Native bluebell, Hyacinthoides non-scripta
http://www.nhm.ac.uk/nature-online/british-natural-history/survey-bluebells/bluebell-identification/native/index.html

b) Hybrid bluebell, Hyacinthoides x massartiana
http://www.nhm.ac.uk/nature-online/british-natural-history/survey-bluebells/bluebell-identification/hybrid/index.html

c) Spanish bluebell, Hyacinthoides hispanica
http://www.nhm.ac.uk/nature-online/british-natural-history/survey-bluebells/bluebell-identification/hispanica/index.html

Could be tricky enough for non-experts to distinguish. What do our members think?

Any bluebells in the Dalcross Castle grounds (Inverness, Scotland) Tom?

[Lyn and Malcolm]

A WPG is a good idea George, I will have to do that, but not at this very moment 
I could get Val the owner to do the review notes for each plant  would make it much easier for me.
Yes I will do it.

Meanwhile I will send you an email with a link to a secret page of some of the pics I took yesterday, am still adding to them.
I can't make the page public as they are for the magazine to look at to see if they are interestwed in using any of the pics.

We have sheduled a visit to the Bluebells this weekend.

Malcolm

[ideasguy]

Thanks for the link, Malcolm. The photos are excellent and the house and garden looks great.
It will be another feather in your cap to have your photos appear in the magazine.
Mind you, after becoming a TV star presenting your garden on National TV recently, you'll take that in your stride!

If you can manage to get a hard copy list of the plants in the collection I'll set up the database, to give you a head start.
If its in electronic form, that will be easier still. I can write a small program to import the data from Excel, Access, etc.

Once database is set up, there are a few options for keying up the plant review information.
I could send the database with the plant collection to you and Val in Flower Genie format or Ideas Genie Pro format.
If Val can enter her personal experience growing the various plants in the collection then that would be the ideal review notes.
Nothing too elaborate required. Nice and simple.

If we can get it under way, its a project we can work at when time allows. Its prime gardening time for all right now 

Back to the bluebells!
Time to experiment with your gadgets, Malcolm!
Dont forget your knee pads!
I'm loooking forward to the pics!

[Lyn and Malcolm]

We visited a bluebell wood this afternoon, hadn't been there for about six years, it is just the same.

Which picture do you prefer ?









Malcolm

[ideasguy]

Do we have to choose? They are all beautiful!
In the order as presented if there has to be a choice. The first two have capturerd the vivid blue very well.
Great photos Malcolm!

What is the location?

[Lyn and Malcolm]

The first two pictures were taken with a Nikon 18-200mm zoom lens, the other two with a Tamron 90mm macro lens. Both lenses used on a Nikon D90 body.

The location will be little known, we came across it on one of our walks, of which we used to do quite a lot.

I cant post a Google Earth .kmz file here, but if you enter into Google Earth "Tollard Royal" close in on that village, and follow the road east till you see Woodcutts , then using the mouse pointer and looking at the bottom of Google Earth where the Lat/Long figures are displayed move the mouse in a NNW direction till the coordinates are

Lat 50.959170 Lon -2.044200 that is the exact spot.

The scent from the bluebells despite a strongish wind, was intense.
I quite like the last two pictures with the shafts of sunlight, but as you say the first two show the mass of blue better.

Malcolm

[ideasguy]

Ive never seen so many bluebells in one place Malcolm. It must have been quite a sight to find on your walk!
I'd like to use one of your images on my www.ideasforgardens.com website. I havent had time to change that photo on the Home page, but one of those would do just fine 

I'll have a go with the Google Earth details later. Now thats an amazing tool!

[Lyn and Malcolm]

I'd like to use one of your images on my www.ideasforgardens.com website. I havent had time to change that photo on the Home page, but one of those would do just fine 

Of course you can George.

Malcolm

[ideasguy]

Thanks Malcolm
I'll do the update in the next couple of days.

Did you get a chance to examine the bluebells to see what variety they were?

[Lyn and Malcolm]

I haven't looked to see what type they are George, but did take a few close pictures, which may show what they are, will look out one and post tomorrow.

Malcolm

[ideasguy]

Should be interesting!

[Eric Hardy]

I have just seen your lovely bluebell shots Malcolm. You asked which we prefer. My vote goes to the last of the four because the blue looks more like the bluebells I know.

You are right that they appear to be out much earlier this year. I haven't been able to get a shot of them in the woods yet but these were taken not far from us on the 15th May in 2006. Yours were taken three weeks earlier than these.



              A few grow under the trees in our garden. Here is a shot of ours taken three days ago.



I haven't used the chart in George's link to identify it yet. I will try to take some more shots in the woods if the weather is fine.

Eric H

[Lyn and Malcolm]

I am afraid I did not get the stamens in the close up pictures.
So looking at this, can you make any suggestions as to which they are using Georges links

[Lyn and Malcolm]

Eric some nice pictures from you too, I like your no2 best with a very close second of no3

We must be getting a lot of difference in white balance between us Eric, mine look a bit blue, yours a bit pink. I havent tried any colour correction on any of my photos.

I know different lenses can also render colours slightly different as can be seen in no 1 and 2 against 3 and 4 of my pictures.
And then of course there are settings in the camera to choose more or less vivid pictures, starts to get complicated, should have bought a flower home, but guess that would not be lawful 

Malcolm

[ideasguy]

I'd say they are the true Bluebells. Straightsided narrow bells and pronounced rolled back petals (the mouth of the bells)

Compare to the desciption on the website:

Each flower is made up of six petals that are fused together at the base to form a narrow straight-sided bell. Flowers are normally 10-28mm in diameter and each petal is usually 14-20mm long.  The petals are usually rolled back.

As for the stamens, I dont think a picture would tell. It would need a physical examinition to see if the filaments of the outer stamens are attached to the inside of the petals as described below.

The three inner stamens are three quarters of the length of the three outer stamens, or less. The filaments of the outer stamens are attached to the petal for about four fifths of their length.  The anthers are pale cream. Flowers are usually strong and sweetly scented, particularly on warm day.

What do you think?

[Eric Hardy]

We must be getting a lot of difference in white balance between us Eric, mine look a bit blue, yours a bit pink. I havent tried any colour correction on any of my photos.

Malcolm, to settle the matter I have been out in the garden in the wet and the dark and collected one of the flowers in my photo. I find the colour in my photo is fairly accurate, or if anything, the real thing has a tiny bit more pink in it than the photo. Your flowers may have been different and they are certainly  bluer than my specimen here. I take my photos in RAW so I am able to play about with the camera settings and white balance after the event. I have just tried it with different white balance settings  but the one that I used, "daylight", seems to give the most accurate result. One of the settings made it a vivid blue, which of course it isn't.

I have also examined the flower very carefully following this from George

Compare to the desciption on the website:

Each flower is made up of six petals that are fused together at the base to form a narrow straight-sided bell. Flowers are normally 10-28mm in diameter and each petal is usually 14-20mm long.  The petals are usually rolled back.

The three inner stamens are three quarters of the length of the three outer stamens, or less. The filaments of the outer stamens are attached to the petal for about four fifths of their length.  The anthers are pale cream. Flowers are usually strong and sweetly scented, particularly on warm day.

/quote]

The flowers in my picture from the garden match exactly the descriptions, including the stamens,  so I can confidently say they are true  bluebells. Looking at your close up Malcolm, apart from the colour they look very similar to mine.

Coming back to the colour variations the soil can make quite a bit of difference, I suppose. I often notice that flowers can become pinker in our garden for some reason. The wild ones in my pictures are near here too so they could be pinker than yours. Then again we come back to the old question of how our monitors behave.

Eric H

[ideasguy]

In my case at any rate, its the camera rather than the monitor that causes the inaccuracies Eric.

With my camera, I can look at the image and look at the flower when taking a photo.
I adjust as best I can, but its disappointing in some cases how different they can be.
When I upload, its the colour I saw in the camera monitor.

Thats why I tend to take photos when the sun isnt beaming and I can set the camera exposure to Overcast. I then adjust the brightness to .5 and less for white flowers. I'm sure you guys have a lot more options in the settings with your gadgetry 

[Eric Hardy]

I had another go today no sun shining. I have compared the flower in the daylight with the flower on the screen and  I think this blue is as true as I can manage.



I also photographed the stamens for George to see 



Eric H

[ideasguy]

From the description, it looks like the true bluebell to me, Eric!
Have you noticed any scent?

I will have to go looking for bluebells locally! I dont have any in my garden 
I need to do something about that, but I'd like to be sure I get the true stock.

[Lyn and Malcolm]

George said

I dont have any in my garden 
I need to do something about that

Lyn dug a big sackfull up, that had invaded a customers garden. They didn't go to waste, our local Hardy Plant Society were asking for some to plant around the hall they use for meetings, to help brighten it up during the seasons.

Malcolm

[ideasguy]

But not the dreaded invaders I hope 
That was a nice gift from Lyn. They must be in abundance to fill a sackful!

[Eric Hardy]

Have you noticed any scent?

Yes George, A delicious scent.
Eric H

[ideasguy]

Theres nothing to beat picking up a nice scent as you walk around the garden.
Since the invader species are not scented, it looks like you definitely have the gebuine article there Eric!