A Victorian obsession

[Trevor Ellis]

During a recent email exchange with George (Ideasguy) I mentioned that I'd been developing an interest in ferns and inputting stuff about them into IGPro. I used to have a number of ferns in the house in the 1970's and just a few in the gardens I've had and two or three that I've tended since. The interest has just resurfaced as a result of a recent house move and differing conditions in the garden . Little wonder I think that that the Victorians were so completely obsessed by them.They're fascinating both in terms of their visual appeal and the different ways (five, I think) that they reproduce. One method is almost animal like in as much that antherozooids from the male elements actually swim across to fertilize the female elements. Another method is when they grow young ferns along the fronds of the parent plant (I've got one doing this at the moment with minute fronds just visible). The variety of shape, texture and colour of fronds and habit is quite extraordinary as is the range of conditions and habitats that they will thrive in. Much wider than is generally thought. And then of course there is the fact that they are so ancient in origin and I like the sense of primitiveness that they engender. I just wondered if any other members have interest or knowledge to impart/share about these fascinating plants. In my recent delvings I came across a number of really good sites dealing with ferns (one nursery also specializing in many plants that will grow in the ever difficult for some - shady sites. One or two intersting sites are as follows if anyone has the inclination to check them out (the first one i.e. plants for shade is an interesting site for anyone who wants any kind of plants, not necessarily ferns, that thrive in shade):

http://www.plantsforshade.co.uk
http://hardyfernlibrary.com/ferns/home.cfm
http://www.world-of-ferns.co.uk
http://www.nhm.ac.uk/hosted_sites/bps/index.htm

[roiphil]

i know nothing about ferns, but do they grow outdoors because on the side of the dyke across our passage are growing what look like ferns, will take a pic tomorrow and post it maybe someone can clarify.

[Trevor Ellis]

Hello roiphil,

yes, they certainly do - everywhere from woods, forests, garden borders to mountain areas and deserts and even in walls. There's a fern for just about any situation. That's one of the beauties of them and they've been doing it for about 400 million years! We burn a lot of them as coal.

Regards,

Trevor E

[Lyn and Malcolm]

Hello Trevor


Thank you for those links
The third link you gave does not work, it should be http://www.world-of-ferns.co.uk/

We have about 7 different "ferns" here in our garden, most in the shade of a cherry tree, but I also use them in pots, to hide larger pots in a display.
We also have ferns growing under banana Musa Basjoo  If we had a bigger garden I am sure we would make room for some more.

Malcolm

[Trevor Ellis]

Hi Malcolm,

thanks for pointing out my link error - I must cut & paste more often! Another fascinating site is the one of the British Pteridological Society. They have some fascinating hugely magnified images of the reproductive organs of ferns as well as other stuff should you be interested. Have you thought about trying some of the smaller ferns if you're short of space - Polystichum prescottianum only 4" - 10"  high or Polystichum hancockii is only between about 3" and 8" high. Some of the smaller ones will happily grow in crevices in walls adding a tough of interest sometimes in the most unexpected of places. There's a Hart's Tongue fern (Asplenium scolopendrium) growing about two feet off the ground in the brickwork of my garage!

Best regards,

Trevor

[ideasguy]

Thanks for posting this Trevor. As I mentioned in my email, I don't know much about Ferns so this is quite an education.
They pop up in various parts of my garden, but I'm afraid I usually dig them up if they are too close to another plant
I'll be kinder in future even though they are a wild form.

Interesting to read you application of using the ferns in pots to hide larger pots Malcolm.

As for the link that didn't work, it might be a good idea to edit your original posting Trevor.

How about a list of ferns in your collections folk?
Your recommendations would be much appreciated.

[Trevor Ellis]

Morning all,

have edited the link George and also added a link for the Pteridological (Fern is much easier eh!?) Society.

[ideasguy]

All links working perfectly, Trevor

I have taken photos of various Ferns on my travels, so now youve started this topic, I will include them in the "forthcoming" WPG's.
I only took photos if the plants had labels, so I could add plant names and photos to Master Database.

[Trevor Ellis]

A few recommendations that are easily available from garden centres/nurseries or specialists:

Dryopteris filix-mas, Dryopteris erythrosora, Cyrtomium fortunei, Asplenium scolopendrium, Athyrium felix-femina 'Frizelliae', Asplenium scolopendrium varieties, Dryopteris affinis, Polystichum setiferum proliferum. These plants are quite adaptable to average situations. Athyrium niponicum varieties have some wonderful colour variations. There are others that adapt only to very wet or boggy conditions, others that prefer acid, others are for alkaline etc. It's always worth checking hardiness zones and prefered conditions but that's easy enough. World-of-ferns have a very useful downloadable list of the ferns that they sell which gives temperature zones and the other preferences (moisture, light, pH, etc) for each plant that they sell. An excellent and not too expensive book on the subject is 'The Plantfinder's Guide to Garden Ferns' by Martin Rickard. It's priced at £12.99 but I bought mine via Amazon for a tenner.

[roiphil]

1 fern pic in its true surroundings on the side of my dyke



when the hedge cutter man comes along i tend to get to miss this part of the dyke out and start cutting the sides past the house, that way we have plants of various sorts mainly ivy and ferns hiding the mud opposite the cottage and the rest of it gets a good cut back, that pic was took this morning ignore the date i like to keep the batteries out of my camera when not in use

[Palustris]

Wonder if this is any use to anyone. I wrote this a long while back when I was doing a lot of propagating of all kinds of plants for sale.
Fern Spore Sowing.

The first, second and third essential is sterility of every part of the growing system (except perhaps the grower!).
This is the method I used and it worked for me, no doubt others will have their own system.
1.I use new plastic 7cm. plant pots and sterilise them by immersing them in boiling water for about a minute. (Test one first to make sure it does not lose shape. Otherwise you must cold sterilise with a mild bleach solution.
2. Any seed sowing compost is OK. Fill dry, cool pots to about an 1 cm below the top and firm down gently. Cover the top with a piece of kitchen towel or coffee filter paper. Pour boiling water through the paper. About a cupful will do.
3. Cover the pots and allow to cool. No further watering is necessary. Remove filter paper.
4. When cool sprinkle fern spores on the surface. Each pot will be big enough for about as many spores as you can fit on the tip of a penknife. They are very tiny and really do need to be spread thinly on the surface or they will not have room to develop. DO NOT DO THIS IN A WINDY SPOT! or sneeze.
5. Place pot in a plastic bag and seal. I use sandwich bags and the paper ties which come with the roll.
6. Place in a warm (unless they are hot house ferns, in which case they need more heat) light position. A north facing or shady window ledge or in the greenhouse but put some shade netting over the top.
7.Eventually the surface of the pot will become covered in what looks like moss (if it is going to work). Open the bag and spray the surface of the 'moss' with distilled water( take the chill off it). Close the bag and put back in a warm, light area and wait.
8. If you have been successful, before long the moss will change to baby ferns. Gradually acclimatise them to growing outside the plastic bag.
9. Prick out the babies, I usually do this in little groups, you can always do it again when they are bigger.

[Trevor Ellis]

Hi Roiphil,

a nice little array you have there. The large fern might be one of the polystichums but as I'm not an expert I can't be sure at least without more information re. size, texture (hard or soft?) of the fronds, shape of the sori containing the spores on the back of the fronds etc. The fern above the large one, i.e. with the long simple glossy leaves is Asplenium scolopendrium (Hart's Tongue Fern). Do you have a limey soil? This fern certainly prefers alkaline conditions. Looks like you have one other type of fern there at least and a number of young ferns scattered among the larger ones. A little collection well worth preserving.

[roiphil]

just goes to show what you can have in one spot without even knowing it, i thought i had 1 fern and some ivy and a a bit of shrub(unknown), no idea ahat sort of soil limey etc, but the general area in places is peaty, it still gets used for cutting turf in one field up the lane for burning on your open fire

[Trevor Ellis]

Hi Roiphil

just goes to show doesn't it - your Hart's Tongue definitely would prefer alkaline soil but there's the wonder of nature again. It's not critical for Hart's Tongue but the growth would be more luxuriant than at present in what is almost certainly acid soil if you have so much peat in the area. They love growing where there's a limestone wall, or if a builder has dumped building rubble somewhere. Adaptable things aren't they!

[roiphil]

a builder has dumped building rubble somewhere

along that part of the dyke there are all old beer bottles and all sorts of stuff in the soil, from years ago, the dyke actually runs along the edge of the old road this is going back 200 odd years, then very many years ago they put in the new road and just left the old road to over grow, i found it on google maps, will go and see if i can capture a pic of the outlay, going searching

1 google map pic took out place names for reasons, exscuse my dodgy handwriting, take a look at the outlay of the new road (its longer) than the old road

[Trevor Ellis]

Hello Palustris,

You've made a useful addition to the topic I'm sure. Hopefully it will encourage some members to have a go. The growing medium issue is perhaps an interesting one. Most advice seems to be to use any seed or multipurpose compost or peat. Tim Dickinson in the Shropshire FLora Group Newsletter (#7 Autumn 1998, http://website.lineone.net/~margaret_cole/SFG7/growing%20ferns.htm) however suggests that seeds should be sown in the type of growing medium that is close to the pH that the mature plant prefers e.g. lime-rich for rustyback ferns, Hart's Tongues, Soft Shield Ferns etc, and an acidic medium for Royal Ferns, Polypody and so on. This would seem to be a logical enough suggestion. Martin Rickard (author of The Plantfinder's Guide to Garden Ferns) says that he prefers to use an ericaceous compost with a low nutrient content, others use peat. Maybe I'll try a few 'control' experiments to try to determine if there's any significant difference in results. Using Perlite and/or Vermiculite in or under the medium might also be useful.

[Trevor Ellis]

Hello (roi)Phil (?)

Interesting to see the map, I'm no geologist and don't know your area - do you have limestone walls/rocks where you're situated? I don't know whether you get limestone and peat in proximity or not.

Trevor

[Palustris]

To be honest it is over 15 years since I did any ferns from spores. There was little market for the majority of the ones which are easy to grow. People then seemed to want the Cheilanthes types and even more so any small ones from New Zealand. Now all of those I found hard to grow on from germination.
The book I use predates those you mention by a good few years, Hardy Ferns by Reginald Kaye. I also have a few from Victorian times as well.
I did send George a lot of pictures of show ferns from various AGS Shows. Pity I cannot get to Photobucket or I could post some  on here for folks to see.

[Trevor Ellis]

Since you mention Cheilanthes ferns Palustris, a few members have said that they know little or nothing of ferns and most people think that ferns need shady, rather damp places I thought that I should mention the fact that there are ferns that prefer virtually the extreme of this. There's quite a number of ferns that have adapted even to desert conditions and so quite happily grow in full sun and where there is almost no soil on walls and in rock crevices, hollow logs etc. These being known as Xerophytic (arid loving) ferns. Cheilanthes are good examples of the type. In very hot and arid conditions (not much chance of that in this country!) some might shrivel and look dead but spring to life with a few drops of rain. Examples are Cheilanthes tomentosa (Woolly Lip Fern) growing 8-14", Ch. sinuata (Wavy Cloak Fern) 6-18", Ch. argentea (Silver Cloak Fern) 4-6".
 
Examples of other ferns of this type: Adiantum aethiopicum (Common Maidenhair), A. formosum (formosum meaning 'beautiful'), A. hispidum, the Rasp ferns (Doodias), the Leather Fern Ruhmohra adiantiformis (flower arrangers like this one since it lasts very well in arrangements. It grows naturally on coastal rocks in full sun).

They are hardy but do need excellent drainage since they can't stand cold AND wet.

Might be an interesting proposition for members who have dry, sunny spots where builders have dumped rubble etc.

[Trevor Ellis]

Hello George,

it would be a really good addition to the master database if you could add those photographs.

Regards,
Trevor

[roiphil]

Hello (roi)Phil (?)

Interesting to see the map, I'm no geologist and don't know your area - do you have limestone walls/rocks where you're situated? I don't know whether you get limestone and peat in proximity or not.

Trevor

(roi) republic of ireland  , many years ago 50 plus the farm that was then used to make there own own lime for spreading on the land, up one of the fields there are still remains of 1 wall to the building where the lime was made, dont ask how what they did to it in that building because i dont know, so there is a good possibility that some  areas could be limey