Author Topic: Bananas in Texas and England  (Read 10242 times)

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Offline Lyn and Malcolm

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Bananas in Texas and England
« on: March 24, 2010, 11:35:13 PM »

Monica Wrote

"Malcolm, I was just out cutting down the bananas mushed in our January Big Freeze -- one has put up a new little shoot, but it will take a while to get them back to their original height.  If you can believe it, we're actually experiencing below normal temps for this time of year."

So what sort of temperature did it get down to, and for how long. I guess you may be growing Musa Basjoo.
We lost all ours about 5 years ago, not so much from the cold, but more from the way we protected them from the cold during the winter. :o

At that time we used straw with a chicken wire wrap around the straw to hold it in place. It wasn't till early spring that we found out what went wrong.
As you know, if you cut the trunks, they bleed a lot of sap for a long time. This was the cause, it just soaked the straw from inside, causing  them to rot, and didn't it smell too.
Other disadvantages of the straw were that it attracted rodents :o and made a terrible mess when putting it round the bananas, and taking it down.

So some other way had to be found to protect them.
This is what I came up with. Ok not particularly pretty, but functional  It takes down into flat sections easy to store away, has an opening door for ventilation and taking a look see if everything is ok.
The banana trunks are wrapped in fleece in the shape of a cone, and a couple of 60 or 100watt lamps, controlled by a very sensitive electronic thermostat, are inside the cone at the bottom. Last year the bananas survived a minus10.7c frost.

The Tardis


We grow
Musa Basjoo
Musa sikkemensis
Ensete ventricosum Maurelli  (overwintered in heated conservatory)
Ensete ventricosum Montbeliardii (overwintered in heated conservatory)

Montbeliardii


Malcolm

Offline TXGulfCoast

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Re: Bananas in Texas and England
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2010, 03:06:07 AM »
Oh my, you?ve done a magnificent job taking care of your in-ground bananas.  The structure is superb, like building a mini-greenhouse.  In fact, I?ve been on a couple of archaeology digs where our housing wasn?t as nice.

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causing  them to rot, and didn't it smell too.
There?s nothing quite like the ?scent? of rotting banana pseudostems, is there?  I imagine you also discovered that the banana sap permanently stains any part of clothing it touches.

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So what sort of temperature did it get down to, and for how long.
Our ?Big Freeze?, the worst in 20 years, came in January.  We had 4 consecutive nights of below freezing temps (day temps all above freezing) for a total of 50 hours below freezing.  The absolute minimum temp for my area was 23°F (-5°C) although that wasn?t for more than a ½ hour or so on two nights.  It wreaked havoc on a lot of our plants.  We don?t experience a real autumn where temperatures slowly decrease and allow plants to harden off, so it hit when plants were still pretty frisky...shocked the leaves right off of them, and then the branches, and even the roots for some of the truly tropicals.

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Last year the bananas survived a minus10.7c frost
That?s remarkable, but our terminology isn?t on the same wavelength:  What you call a ?frost? is a ?hard freeze? in our lexicon.  Frost for us is rime, frozen dew ? high humidity and above freezing to about 38°F (3°C)
Freeze is between 32°F (0°C) and 27°F (-3°C)
Hard Freeze is below 27°F (-3°C)
These are U.S. National Weather Service terms used for crop warnings and most gardeners use them as well.  Do you refer to all temperatures below freezing as ?frosts??
   
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I guess you may be growing Musa Basjoo
Actually, we are on the far northern limit of in-ground edible Musa production.  Not many M. basjoo ? they?re very nice ornamentals, but mostly grown further north.  The most typical Musa cultivar in our area is called ?Orinoco? ? eaten like a plantain when mature but unripe, and dessert quality if left to ripen fully.  They?ve been in the area many years, get very large and prolifically pup, so it?s a ?passalong? plant (no one buys this cultivar because it?s shared by neighbors and friends).  It?s a semi-reliable fruiter, but much too large to protect, up to 7m.

Another favorite here (ornamental only) is Musa sumatrana aka zebrina aka ?Rojo? aka Blood Banana http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/55536/.  That?s the only one I have at present and it?s not protected because it will come back from a freeze here.

Protection, if practiced, is primarily wrapping the pseudostems with a few layers of newspaper and tying a layer of burlap over it.  Some are now wrapping with frost cloth, what I think you refer to as fleece, for prized cultivars.  The main purpose is to protect the pseudostem.  The leaves return very rapidly here as it warms up.   

You have many more cultivars of ornamental bananas than are found in the U.S.  I?d never heard of Ensete ventricosum Montbeliardii, and a quick check showed it?s almost impossible to find in the U.S., yet readily available in the U.K. and Europe.  I do have on my wish list a Musella lasiocarpa, the Chinese Yellow Banana.  http://www.smgrowers.com/products/plants/plantdisplay.asp?plant_id=2658 (2 images).  You might very well be able to grow that one outside.  It?s a dwarf, maybe 1.5m-2m and the flowers are stunning, huge and last for months.

I just attended a lecture on ?Growing Bananas in a Marginal Climate?.  If you?re interested in edible bananas I can pass along the info and recommended cultivars that you might be able to grow.

Monica

Offline TXGulfCoast

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Re: Bananas in Texas and England
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2010, 03:10:12 AM »
Malcolm, did you see that George added a topic board under plants called Tropical-esque.  That's where we should be posting.  He even moved the Cycad discussion there already.  We're no longer relegated to General Discussion.

Let's use it.  See you there!

Monica

Offline Lyn and Malcolm

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Re: Bananas in Texas and England
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2010, 10:58:05 PM »

I hadn't noticed the new title Monica, George is crafty sometimes  :D

My personal definition of a frost is when the air temperature at about 4 foot 6 inches above ground reaches 0c or below. I know this is not technically correct regarding ground frost and air frost. I would agree with the definitions you gave.

I have heard of several of the "Bananas" you have mentioned, the Musella lasiocarpa can be a problem to overwinter in UK so have never tried it.

Ensete ventricosum Montbeliardii we bought as a baby from the now defunct KobaKoba. Montbeliardii was thought to be lost from cultivation, but the owner of KobaKoba David Constantine managed to get hold of material which he had tissue cultured, and as far as anyone knows it is Montbeliardii. As you can see from our picture, it is a very nice plant, and is still growing well in a very large pot, which I can just about haul in an out of the conservatory, it is in there at the moment, waiting another month or so before I put it in the garden, still in its pot, lowered into a big hole in the ground to give stability.
I haven't dared get it out of its pot to refresh the soil, for fear of losing it. New plants are in relatively short supply still in uk.

Unfortumatley unless we move house (not likely unless Lyn wins the Lottery)  ;D We really have no more room for large plants in the garden or the house  ::) So can't have any more Nanas  :'(

Thank you for your very informative posting again. Sorry not to have replied sooner.

Malcolm

Offline TXGulfCoast

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Re: Bananas in Texas and England
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2010, 04:25:51 AM »
If you're concerned about repotting your special bananas, do you use a banana fertilizer?  The lecturer said to use a 3N-1P-6K formula - obviously they like way more potassium than other plants.

And at some point, that rhizome is going to try to escape through the sides of the pot.  Is the Montbeliardii one that pups?  If it does, you'll have back up and another income source ;D; no worries about the lottery.

I wonder why Musella lasiocarpa is difficult in the UK.  According to Dave's Garden, people are growing it into USDA 7, -18C to -12C, (with mulch protection and sheltered).  Do you think they need more summer heat to build up sugar reserves than the UK provides?

Another enigma on the differences in growing zones and climates.

Monica

Offline Lyn and Malcolm

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Re: Bananas in Texas and England
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2010, 06:30:04 PM »

Unfortunately Montbeliardii doesn't pup, it would be too easy if it did. :(

I have never fed the bananas apart from a little nitrogen to get them leafing up in the spring.

We occasionally get some small banana fruit on the Musa basjoo. When I cut them down last autumn, I found a flower bud and some forming fruit.
I left it on the plant, and it has been covered with the fleece and inside the structure. Because the plant is beginning to grow, the new leaves have reached the roof of the shelter. Last weekend I had to cut back some of the growth, to my suprise the fruit and flower are still intact.
We are expecting more cold weather to return in the next day or so, so can't uncover them yet.

I think the lasiocarpa dislikes the winter dampness more than anything.

Malcolm