Unknown plant at Ightham Mote

[Eric Hardy]

In "Gardens to visit in the UK" I posted this plant taken on a visit in 2003 to Ightham Mote, in Kent. I asked whether anyone could identify it but nobody did. Perhaps this is a more appropriate place for my question.

[Trevor Ellis]

Hi Eric,

the plant looks rather like Phacelia Tanacetifolium.

Hope this helps,

Trevor

[Eric Hardy]

Thanks, Trevor. I have been checking images on the internet and I am sure you are right. I had consulted the bible (The R.H.S. A-Z) but there is no illustration. Now you have given me the name I find that there is an entry but (I don't know about you) I can never find anything just looking at descriptions without a picture.

[Trevor Ellis]

I know what you mean Eric and it often comes down to a bit of luck, often intuition fed etc. And often things look quite different even in photographs in books. We all know how conditions sometimes can make a difference to how a plant looks, it's size, even colour and so on. I had two plants of Phacelia appear in quite different parts of my present garden. One was quite strong and the other very small and weak. The strong one was destroyed in a cat fight one night last year and the other limped on until the autumn. Non have appeared so far this year but things do seem to be about three weeks to a month late so here's hoping. It's one of the very pretty annual plants from the Borage family that is I think classed either as weeds (sometimes called Scorpion weed apparently) or as fodder. I hadn't been aware of it till it appeared self set in the garden. It's supposed to be very attractive to hoverflies so there's a second good reason to grow it in addition to it's undoubted attractiveness.

Cheers,
Trevor

[JohnB]

Looks like Trevor hit the nail on the head, an internet search comes up with a couple of sites that have photos and there appears to be a match. It's amazing how 'weeds' can look so nice sometimes!

[Eric Hardy]

It's amazing how 'weeds' can look so nice sometimes!

They say weeds are just plants in the wrong place, John. We have some beautiful weeds in our garden 

[Trevor Ellis]

just a quick note that probably you've seen already but just in case, Chiltern Seeds http://www.chilternseeds.co.uk/item.php?id=977A sell Phacelia tanacatefolia at £1.72 per packet. I agree that some so designated 'weeds' are amongst the prettiest of plants - pity at times that some of them are so proliferous! It seems, according to the gardening fashionistas that wildflowers are the 'in' thing?!?!

Trevor

[JohnB]

It's also true that plants sold in one part of the country can be invasive weeds in another. When I lived in New Jersey, I bought a few Broom plants (Cytisus scoparius) over the years and could generally only keep them alive for 2-3 years, yet I really liked them.

We came out to the Pacific North West and on the West side of the Cascades in and around Seattle, Broom is an invasive weed - which initially I didn't know. So when in spring, a few plants started blooming all over the property, I was delighted - until a few local experts came over and were aghast that I hadn't yanked them out...

Needless to say, we still have Broom, but only because it prolifically self seeds and we haven't completely caught up with it!

[ideasguy]

On a quick surf, I think the plant you have mentioned John - Cytisus scoparius - was growing in my garden in my Dads time and there were a few growing when we moved here.
One came up in an unexpected place, and I pruned it into a rounded shape and removed lowers side branches to make it look like a large standard. It was spectacular Sadly it died, so perhaps it didn't like that treatment
Seedlings used to appear in one particular area, and I pulled them out. I haven't seen any seedlings for years, and now you've mentioned it, I'd like to grow one again.
As I recall, they had a long tap root, so didn't take easily to being potted up after being uprooted. I may not have cared for it properly - it was one of those plants I pot up and don't worry too much if they don't make it.

Ive seen a much smaller variety in gardens around here with very pale cream flowers - a real beauty with arching stems growing to about 4ft. Not sure of its name. Anyone grow anything like that?

[Eric Hardy]

- Cytisus scoparius - Ive seen a much smaller variety in gardens around here with very pale cream flowers - a real beauty with arching stems growing to about 4ft. Not sure of its name. Anyone grow anything like that?

No, George, we don't have a pale one like that. I think ours is just a domesticated wild one. Some years ago Adam, our eldest, brought home a small plant from France and we put it in. It grew to be almost 6 feet high. I think our present one may be a third generation. The one thing we have learned is that it most certainly does not like being pruned, so I am not surprised yours didn't like the treatment. This one is growing against a fence and has got a tendency to to arch too far forward when in full flower and it has become heavy with rain. At the moment it has three discreet props of hazel branches (cut with forks at the top) holding up the main stems. As John says, they are not long lived. I think in the wild they must just keep going by perpetually reseeding themselves. Now ours is just a mass of seed pods after a spectacular display.

[ideasguy]

As always, a very high quality photo Eric - thanks for posting! (Nice to see activity again here - as you know Ive been a kinda busy lately  and not much time to keep things going).

The arching branches ring a bell! When we arrived here, one large specimen - 8ft at least was leaning to an angle of about 45degrees at least. I think it was due to the prevailing wind direction and being channeled due to its location at the side of the house. It wasn't a pretty sight for most of the year but as you know it was spectacular when in bloom.

We've rambled off topic a bit here. Perhaps I should split it out into a new topic about Broom
Not too "naughty" as I think our valiant members have identified the unknown plant which was the subject of this topic.

[Eric Hardy]

Just to keep off topic  , I mentioned that the broom is covered with seed pods. This is what it looks like now